How to lie with the truth.

Rose left a link to a site collecting press releases. On that site, Bandwagon Boy himself, Johnny Banitall, has been busy. One of his latest gravy trains is the attack on Electrofag.

Nicotine could be deadly – if you concentrate it and drink a lot of it. It is self-evidently not deadly in tobacco or nobody would ever have smoked more than one. If it is deadly in the wisps of smoke that annoy the timid and the feeble, then it must surely kill the smoker with one puff.

This is logic. No point explaining it to antismokers, they are all too dim to grasp it. They also have not realised what this statement implies –

The need to protect bystanders from exposure to this chemical justifies the growing number of bans…

It implies that you antismokers are incapable of looking after yourselves and must be nannied and mollycoddled throughout your shallow, bubble-wrapped lives. And still you wonder why the world is laughing at you.

Some of the article is straight-out lies, of course, such as this one –

The new experiment did not study exposure to the other main ingredient of e-cigarette vapor, propylene glycol, although the chemical is recognized as a respiratory irritant.

That’ll be why it’s used in asthma inhalers then.

This, though, is the meat of the article. The bit you’ll see the drones regurgitate in the newspaper comments:

Another study in April found some 22 potentially dangerous chemicals in the vapor given off or inhaled. These include many metallic particles – including 3 on the FDA’s “harmful and potentially harmful chemicals” list [lead, nickel, and chromium] – with the concentrations of 9 “higher than or equal to the corresponding concentrations in conventional cigarette smoke,” notes Banzhaf, who has been called “the law professor who masterminded litigation against the tobacco industry.”

He’s not lying. Let’s take his version of the truth apart.

lead, nickel, and chromium

Well, duh. It’s an electronic device which heats up. Like your computer’s power supply, it will vapourise tiny amounts of the metals it’s made of.

with the concentrations of 9

Nine what? Parts per million, or per billion? To even detect it you’d need to be in a room that filters outside air because there is a lot more of those metals in traffic exhaust. He doed not define the amount. They never do. They talk in percentages usually because 35% sounds a lot scarier than 35% of a total of 0.000001%. This time, no percentage. Why?

“higher than or equal to the corresponding concentrations in conventional cigarette smoke,”

Hardly surprising since tobacco has no electrical components. So some or all of the metals are not in tobacco smoke at all. In which case he’s not actually lying, there is more in the vapour from an electronic device than in the smoke from a burning leaf. It’s just that the comparison is zero vs. insignificant.

Banitall makes money from all this. A lot of money. He gets away with it because in America, most judges have their brains pulverised and extracted through their noses as soon as they put the wig on. Politicians undergo an even more rigorous skull-cleansing, as they do in the UK.

As with the rest of ASH, if he truly gave so much as a shrew’s pickled pancreas about the health of the people, he would be welcoming Electrofag as the only quit-smoking device ever to show any real results. All he sees is something else he can get paid to attack. He’s also had a pop at MacDonald’s and even a football team.

I can find no record of him even mentioning the pharmaceutical industry’s push to sell drugs to people who aren’t ill, nothing about the over-diagnosis of mental illnesses and the resulting massive prescription of mood-altering drugs with side effects that not only include suicidal thoughts but also…. obesity and diabetes. The link to that article isn’t online yet – when it is, I’ll post it. As for suicide, there is a link that might be of interest. Particularly of interest might be when the rate started to rise. That’s a different discussion though. There is a connection there I haven’t quite formulated yet.

So Mr. Banitall is somewhat selective in who he attacks. In his world, some can be excused anything while others must be attacked over nothing. It depends, I suppose, where the profit lies.

This does not make him exceptional. There are many with his mindset in law and in the medical profession – and pretty much every politician is really in it for themselves and no more. There are exceptions but those are few.

It’s all been about money all along – but only for the few. Their useful idiots don’t get any. All they get is someone to hate but for such small minds, it’s all they need, or want, or can cope with.

In the olden days, one of the many sayings of that ancient time was ‘Give them enough rope and they’ll hang themselves’. It means let the idiots babble, eventually everyone else will see them as they really are. It’s starting to happen, slowly, and the Righteous are so far up their own backsides they can’t see it. Their claims are more preposterous by the day, even a few of their most dedicated drones are starting to go ‘Huh?’

It could go one of two ways from here. The drones could wake up and the likes of Banitall will be held to account for the damaging lies they have promulgated for profit, or the whole of Western civilisation will collapse just as every other attempt at a centrally-controlled civilisation has in the past.

Will those who seek control learn from this? They never have before. They will keep trying, a new form of civilisation will develop and the control freaks will try to control everyone again and fuck it all up as they have every single time they raise their foetid heads.

They keep trying but their chances of success are zero. Always have been and always will be. All they have ever done, all they will ever do, is wreck it for everyone else.

Here we go again.



26 thoughts on “How to lie with the truth.

    • And what harmful chemicals does the ink contain, that they have used to print the warnings on the cigarette? Lead, nickel and chrome no doubt, among others.


    • I have some donated cigars that need rehydrating and some need re-wrapping. Once I can wrap a smoke in an outer leaf, I won’t need the paper part at all. Home made stogies.

      Then I’ll have to get a poncho and a cowboy hat.


  1. “He’s not lying. Let’s take his version of the truth apart.

    lead, nickel, and chromium

    Well, duh. It’s an electronic device which heats up. Like your computer’s power supply, it will vapourise tiny amounts of the metals it’s made of.”

    But he IS lying. There is no way that you can call this the truth to begin with. Firstly, to investigate this we would have to come down to a molecular level. Its true that an electronic device which heats up will vapourise insignificant amounts of whatever material it’s made of, except that no one takes into account the temperatures generated within the device, insulating barriers or the area that is heated. My electrofag has a bottom mounted burner unit containing a short wick with a coil wrapped around it – 3 turns. The coil itself and the body of the burner unit are made of stainless steel – no lead or nickel – in fact I don’t know of any electronic devices that contain lead except lead/acid car batteries (also solder may contain lead but apart from the fact that its been outlawed, there is no solder in an electrofag burner). Stainless steel is mild steel with a chromium content, so there is chrome. Nickel is unlikely but I’m not sure about that one, it is sometimes used in manufacturing processes, usually electroplating.

    The only point where any vapourisation could take place would be the coil itself, since you couldn’t generate enough heat to cover a wider area from a 3.8 volt 1Ah battery. The coil doesn’t even reach the red heat stage, and besides that there is air space between the coil and the burner body which fills with e-liquid. So what we are talking about here is some heat which is generated in a very localised area. You would get a few molecules of vapourised chrome but I don’t think it could be measured.

    This looks like the old “Tobacco smoke contains harmful chemicals”. There are none to speak of with electrofags, so they will have to invent some. This needs nipping in the bud before it gets to that stage.


    • Purely to play devil’s advocate – all the e-cigs I use are using either Nichrome wire or Kanthal for their heating coils. Nichrome (being cheaper) tends to be more common and does contain nickel.

      The only way I can see a measurable amount being put off in the vapour would be if the coil was held at full temperature for a significant period of time. Which obviously, is not how e-cigs are used. It could be how they have ‘tested’ them though. That’s ignoring the chromium oxide layer that forms too.

      I’m stuffed if I can figure out where lead is supposed to be coming from though.


      • They would likely have needed to generate more than one ‘vapers’ puff’ worth of vapour to get enough to measure. Did they even use an Electrofag heater?

        Banboy’s words – “…the vapor given off or inhaled…”

        He’s a lawyer and so he will use literal truth to lie. It is not the ‘vapour inhaled’ that is measured because that’s inhaled and they can’t stick a detector down your throat. It is instead the vapour assumed to be inhaled. He states ‘given off or inhaled’ because there is no way for any method that tests vapour, or smoke, to determine how much is inhaled and hoiw much just floats away.

        Since this stuff is only ever done by antismokers, they exaggerate everything about smoking so they will have boosted the real amount to what they want it to be. It would not surprise me at all to find that they just kept increasing the volume of vapour tested until they found something. Looking at the levels of the ‘deadly things’ in smoke, they are well practised in doing just that.

        They do not specify in that press release the volume of vapour tested (was Banboy’s figure of ‘9’ per litre or per ml?) nor how long they ran the heater, nor whether it was a standard Electrofag heater.

        The results can be true, but the method can be bunk.


    • Nichrome is used often in repeatedly-heated wire. We microbiologists use loops of it to transfer bacterial colonies. You can sterilise it many times in an open flame before it falls apart. I can see it as a good choice for a heat-then-cool-then-heat element such as Electrofag.

      As for the metals in vapour, modern flame ionisation detectors can get down to unbelievable levels. Banboy’s quote of ‘9’ without giving units suggests that in real science, the amounts detected equate to what scientists would call, in technical terms, ‘bugger all’.

      Nothing they found was anywhere close to the allowable limits in say, an inhaler or other electrical medical equipment that delivers a vapour. I guarantee that – because if it was, we’d have heard all about it for certain!


  2. I’m concerned about reducing traces of possibly harmful substances. It must be better for one’s health to avoid reducing these to homoeopathic levels, because then they would become more dangerous! So there must be an ideal concentration for all substances, between zero (unachievable in practice) and, say, 1000ppm.
    Do you think you could promote this nonsense and worry to death a few more “ons”?
    (please use any of this, especially the term – more “ons”!)


    • Homeopathy (referred to as ‘hormesis’ in scientific papers that report exactly the effects homeopaths have been banging on about for years, but who don’t want to admit it) is based on the idea that a tiny amount of what kills you can be good for you.

      It even works for methanogenic bacteria. Oxygen, even at low levels, is deadly to them but get down into nanomolar levels and they work faster. A little more oxygen and they stop.

      So to turn it around, all it takes is a mention of some tiny trace of antibiotic (which would normally cure) suddenly becoming utterly deadly at very low levels. Where would you experience a trace amoiunt of antibiotic?

      Any surface in any doctor’s surgery or hospital. The drones can be convinced they are sick and at the same time too scared to go to the doctor. The ultimate game!

      As for homeopathy, unforrtunately they dilute to levels where not only is there not one molecule of substance left, there isn’t any of the original water left. Even if ‘memory of water’ was true (it isn’t), it still won’t work.

      On the other hand, a lot of most metals in your body will kill you but some of those deadly metals are essential in trace amounts, as enzymne components. So the principle is right, the homeopaths just don’t know when to stop diluting!


  3. “Another study in April found some 22 potentially dangerous chemicals in the vapor given off or inhaled.”

    Silly under-achieving twits, latest word around here is that bottled water contains over 24,000 potentially dangerous chemicals.


  4. LOL :
    Typical Tap Water Content:

    Fluorine compounds
    Trihalomethanes (THMs)
    Salts of:

    We’re doomed, doomed I say! Don’t smoke AND drink water!!!



    Some proper studies that you might find interesting Mr Leg iron …….. I am nothing to do with grimgreen blog, but I am an avid reader or yours, and grims blog, ex smoker ( well the cancer diagnosis forced my hand…..happily cured of squamous cell carcinoma in the base of my tongue at the age of 37 !!) but I am a vaper , I’m no tinfoil hatter but “big tobacco” “big pharmer” and “big gov” don’t want us using these , they still want people to smoke , or use the crappy (you’ll never quit) niquitin they are all losing money…..and they don’t like it .


    • They will continue to lose money. And power. The smokers/vapers won’t bring the government down.

      ASH and the other pressure groups will do that. They’re doing a damn good job of it, why should we interfere?


  6. Here are the USP standards for the maximum allowable daily exposures for each of these metals from inhalation medicines, in micrograms (from the United States Pharmacopeial Convention, Revision Bulletin, Elemental Impurities–Limits, February 1, 2013) :

    Lead = 5.0

    Chromium = 25

    Nickel = 1.5

    Arsenic = 1.5

    Mercury = 1.5

    Here are the amounts of these chemicals in the mainstream smoke(inhaled by smoker) of the average cigarette as found in the 1999 Mass. Benchmark Study.

    These are in nanograms which are 1/1,000th of a microgram.

    Lead = 63/cigarette = 1,260 per 20 cigs.
    That is 25% of the USP max allowable daily exposure.

    Chromium = 12/cig.= 240 per 20 cigs.
    That is 1% of the USP max allowable daily exposure.

    Arsenic = 14/cig = 280 per 20 cigs.
    That is 19% of the USP max allowable daily exposure.

    Nickel = 12/cig = 240 per 20 cigs.
    That is 16% of the USP max allowable daily exposure.

    Mercury = 6/cig = 120 per 20 cigs.
    That is 0.5% of the USP max allowable daily exposure.(1/2 of 1%)


    • Ah, now we can deduce some assumptions.

      Banboy said the highest level he found was ‘9’. He also did not mention arsenic or mercury so we can safely deduce those were undetected.

      We can be certyain that none of the levels exceeded ther limits for medical inhalers or he’d be shouting it from the rooftops. So at the most, lead was less than 5 ug, nickel less than 1.5 ug and the figure of ‘9’ can only refer to chromium – which has a limit of 25 ug.

      They can all be higher than you get from burning leaf – but we can be certain that they are all lower than you’ll get from any medical inhaler device. WHich means there is a serious danger of Electrofag being declared perfectly safe as far as medical devices go. In fact, it’s certainly safer than most of them because it’s not full of drugs.

      As far as I can see, Banboy’s tests proved nothing even remotely dangerous at all so all he has left is lawyer-spin.

      But then, that’s all he ever had to start with.


      • More lawyer spin.

        Investigations: Banzhaf’s Bandits

        “Once, ASH (Action on Smoking and Health) was John Banzhaf’s only pressure group. Now he has CAP, PUMP, LASH, TUBE and SOUP. Startled industries and badgered regulatory agencies are suddenly painfully aware that Banzhaf’s Bandits are abroad in Washington.

        John F. Banzhaf III, 29, is the lawyer who staggered the tobacco and television industries with his successful demand that TV stations give free time for antismoking messages. To his amazement, the Federal Communications Commission responded to his “citizen’s complaint,” an action later upheld in the courts.

        The victory prompted Banzhaf to quit his New York law firm and devote his time to ASH, which he had earlier organized as a nonprofit foundation. He moved to Washington, and LASH (Legislative Action on Smoking and Health), an antismoking lobby, was started soon after.

        Marble Soup. Last fall Banzhaf taught a course in unfair trade practices at the George Washington University law school. He so inspired his 60 students that they split up into activist groups and fanned out to do battle, a la Nader’s Raiders, as Banzhafs Bandits. Examples:

        CAP (Collection Agency Practices) investigates abuses in poor Washington neighborhoods, collecting affidavits from citizens harassed by bill collectors who pose as lawyers and policemen.

        TUBE (Termination of Unfair Broadcasting Excesses), charging that many television commercials are deceptive, demands that the FCC monitor commercials before they are shown.

        PUMP (Protesting Unfair Marketing Practices) accuses gasoline retailers of selling identical gasoline under a broad spectrum of brand names and ratings.

        SOUP (Students Opposed to Unfair Practices) is pressing the Federal Trade Commission to fine the Campbell Soup Co. for a commercial in which glass marbles allegedly were employed to push soup solids to the top of the bowl for greater visibility.”,9171,904206,00.html


        CANDY seeks legal action to stop packaging candy cigarettes like real cigarettes

        CRASH working with ASH to protect non-smokers by requiring seperate compartments on planes.
        http: //

        So successful was he in causing unnecessary nuisance over trivial matters with his new “clinical” approach to teaching students, apparently the next year he almost lost his job at The University.

        Colleagues to Decide Fate of Activist Lawyer – 1971,1525640


        • ASH, CAP, PUMP, LASH, TUBE and SOUP.

          I can make a sentence containing them all but it’s too disgusting to type. CANDY CRASH became a game on Farcebok after they did themselves out of a reason to exist by succeeding.

          I wonder – did Banboy learn from the failure of the success of Candy Crash? All his others have pulled back from winning outright. As long as the fight goes on, the dopey politicos keep paying them. If they ever win, the gravy train stops.

          So we get ever more stupid increments in each case but never, ever, a call for banning it outright.


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