Thunderstealers – The Salties.

Some time ago (and quite often, actually), VGIF have debunked the myth of the massive decline in heart attacks as a result of the smoking ban. It has never stopped the antismokers claiming great success, and nothing ever will. They just keep on spouting gibberish and ignore facts.

The other Righteous Ban Brigades are using the same template so all do the same thing. Unfortunately for the antismokers, their copycats aren’t bright enough to come up with new success stories of their own. They steal more than just the template.

saltieheartsYes, the Salties claim that the massive reduction in heart attacks – also high blood pressure and strokes, which everyone knows are only caused by smoking, is entirely their doing. To make their claim watertight they are starting with 2003, a few years before the smoking ban. So the antismokers can’t steal it back.

The VGIF article linked at the top was from 2009. Right in the middle of it all. Heart attacks were going out of fashion before the smoking ban – and the Salties are claiming the credit. I note from their imagined figures that half of all heart attack and stroke users die from their habit. There’s really not much creative thought going into any of this, is there?

I don’t recall too much action from the Salties in 2003. There were initial moves around that time and earlier. In one place I worked, around 1990, the staff canteen were told not to add salt to the food when cooking. This was abandoned when it was found that the staff just added even more at the table. There were occasional mutterings from the Salties but nothing they did had any real lasting effect on anyone’s salt use. Well, except the gullible, who ended up as salt (and intelligence) deprivation cases

The bans on salt cellars at restaurant tables have really only recently been pushed upon us – well, upon the unfortunate lab-rat residents of Bloombergland, mostly – and I note that some USA companies now do a very nice line in pocket salt cellars. They are available on Amazon. Very cheap but we in the UK would have to pay postage from the US which is more than the item. Until the salt bans get properly under way here. Then the pocket salt cellars will be hanging up at the checkouts alongside Electrofags, tobacco seeds, leaf shredders and packs of homebrew yeast.

No, they aren’t all hanging there yet. Give it another year or two.

The Salties are now muscling in on antismoker territory. Another claim of a heart attack miracle due to an ‘intervention’ hardly anyone paid the slightest attention to. Like the antismoking interventions.

Official figures show smoking rates as static at just over 20%. If the antis had any brains at all they would be alarmed at this, since those figures come from UK sales. They don’t include homegrown or EU-bought smokes. They don’t include Man with a Van. If smoking prevalence appears static while more and more of us source our baccy from non-UK shops (and one day, from rambling in the woods and picking wild leaves. My best plant managed to seed last year. Not many pods but considering how many seeds each pod holds, one pod is way more than I need) then it can only mean that real smoking figures are on the increase.

I don’t travel around much so my observations are merely local and scientifically irrelevant. I see a lot of young smokers now. This is surprising. The rhetoric of the antis, the indoctrination from all sides, the inconvenience of having to go outside to smoke, the subhuman status, the constant villification… and yet there seem to still be a lot of young smokers.

Why are they starting? If I was 20 now, it would be a far less easy option than when I was really 20 (holy crap, that’s nearly a quarter of a century ago!). The price is extortionate, pubs and cafes and everywhere else shove you out into the cold, the government and the NHS encourage everyone else to hate you and hit you. It’s like strolling through Berlin in 1938 dressed as Fagin and shouting ‘Oy vay, there are too many goyim here, we should be rid of them’ and being surprised at what happened next.

Why are they starting and why are they continuing?

I think they are starting because it’s in the news all the time and they are curious. It’s the same as the reason that, in the 1960s, ‘certain children’ put bangers into bottles because they were forcefully and explicity told not to do that. Waste of time anyway, we – I mean they – never managed to make a single bottle explode. We – uh, they – did make interesting craters in fresh cowpats but kids aren’t allowed to play with those any more either. Not even the dried out ‘free frisbees’.

The price will get to those young smokers. They will buy plants and/or seeds and grow it themselves, they will soon find that a trip to Europe more than pays for itself in the money saved on baccy. They will move on from their shop-bought smokes, the next generation will start on the shop-bought ones for the same reasons (and also because they will be in interestingly gory packs) and they will then move on to cheaper options too. Rinse and repeat.

The official figure will hover around 20% while the real figure climbs back to the old 80% without any of the idiots in charge even noticing. Not until election day rolls around. Too late. By the time any of these morons realise what a doorstep response of ‘I like to smoke, your party hates me’ really means, they will be polling below the Stickleback Taxidermy party.

All the claims of the Salties, the Sugabans, the Booze Removers, the Chubby Checkers, all of them, are stolen from the tobacco template and the claims of the antismoker lobby . All of them.

When the antismoker lot collapse, the whole house of cards goes down.

So is it happening? As I said, I have a very limited range of observation here. I am seeing, locally, a lot of young smokers.

Is anyone else seeing the same?



26 thoughts on “Thunderstealers – The Salties.

  1. I noticed that there are few middle aged smokers but a lot of older or young smokers, they don’t remember what it was like before the ban so smoking outside is now normal. I certainly won’t count in their stats as I have bought no tobacco products in the UK since the ban started. I was also thinking of giving up, no real reason I was just getting fed up with it but, as my previous experience with stopping resulted in a 24lb weight gain, I had to give it some thought. Then came the totally unexpected extent of the ban and that was that, even my brush with lung cancer didn’t make me give up. It has become a point of principle not to give up now.


    • I’ve also noticed that the younger smokers regard smoking outside as normal. They never went to pubs you could smoke inside.

      The ban has done nothing to reduce smoking. Just move it.

      It has probably done more for the sale of cold remedies than anything else. So the Pharmers win again.


  2. Where I work, there are several hundred teenage kids doing exam revision courses at the moment. The percentage of them who smoke is very high.
    John Gibson


  3. I’ve just made a link that the bansturbators seem so far to have missed. Do you realise that the world food supply is threatened by second hand smoke? Bees are necessary pollinators but have been proved to be in serious decline due to nicotinoids in one of the many chemicals farmers apply to their crops. But is this agriplot the real reason? Maybe it’s the secondhand smoke fouling the atmosphere that’s doing it. You filthy smokers have so much to answer for!


    • Neo as a prefix is more commercially attractive than pseudo but can be misleading.

      Pesticide Toxicity Profile: Neonicotinoid Pesticides

      “The mode of action of neonicotinoid pesticides is modeled after the natural insecticide, nicotine. They act on the central nervous system of insects.”

      “It is a systemic with long residual activity”

      “Of the neonicotinoids, imidacloprid is the most toxic to birds and fish. Both imidacloprid and thiamethoxam are highly toxic to honeybees.”

      Old fashioned pesticide made from real nicotine, now little used.

      TRADE NAME(S): Black Leaf 40 (56)

      FORMULATION(S): Nicotine alkaloid, 95%; nicotine sulfate, 40%


      “Little hazard to birds, fish and beneficial insects.

      Approximate Residual Period: Very short, 1 day on plants; same in soil and water”


    • How’s this for politically incorrect?

      Bees For Development

      Use of tobacco smoke against parasitic mite syndrome – 2006

      “The pathological condition that has appeared in Iraqi apiaries recently has caused large losses in honeybee colonies, dwindling populations and decreasing honey production. It is perhaps similar to the condition described by Dr Shimanuki as The Parasitic Mite Syndrome’. A trial has been carried out on two apiaries, one with 50 colonies and the other with 30 colonies using tobacco leaves burned in the smokers.


      In Spring 1995 colonies showed some delay in their build up. A lot of crawling bees had been seen in front of the hives and on the ground. Hives in two apiaries were treated with tobacco leaves. 15-20 g of leaves were burned in the smoker with the material used for making smoke. It was used during routine examinations every week or as needed, in March, April and May. These colonies were shown to have greater populations and to yield more honey compared with two control hives kept near the apiary of 50 colonies. In the apiary with 30 colonies there were another 45 colonies which were not treated with tobacco smoke.


      In early August there was a check up and comparison between the colonies that had been treated with tobacco smoke and those which had not. There was a great difference in honeybee populations; those which had been treated being more populous. The bees were more active in foraging and collecting nectar.


      Whatever the disease, I believe that tobacco smoke had beneficial effect on the colonies. We know that nicotine in tobacco smoke has some anaesthetic effect on insects in general, and it might have some lethal effect on mites and therefore some beneficial effect against the condition.

      We believe now that the immune system of the bees is in some way diminished. By using tobacco smoke we are either hitting the primary target, or we might be curing a secondary pathogen. In either case we are helping our bees to get better!”


    • Bees are necessary pollinators but have been proved to be in serious decline

      Absolutely. That is why, when the Europeans first set foot on the shores of North America, they commented on the barren landscape. No flowering shrubs, fruit or nut trees, verdant meadows or anything of the sort.

      Only after the introduction of the honeybee by the Europeans did the land flourish.

      Well, not really. Don’t get me wrong, honeybees are nice to have around. But let us maintain perspective.


  4. Kind of on/off topic, don’t you just LOVE ir when someone elses plan goes wrong?

    A few years back, concerned about the amount of polution from cars/trucks etc, in German citys, they introduced a “disc scheme” whereby when the polution levels were high, only vehicles with the Green No4 disc could enter certain areas.

    The results were out yesterday.

    Hardly a single percent point difference since the scheme started! 😀 😀 😀


    • Yeah but the Environment Agency did rush, with almost unseemly throbbing Windturbineesque energy, to point out that they would be retaining the disc system cos “the results would have been even worse if we hadn’t have had it! So There!” …or something that sounded like that, my German is still good enough that I could pick up on the *fingers-in-ears-tongue-out “I’m not listening to youuu” tone!*

      Amuses me to hear ZDF News anchors directing everyone to their website which informs of the Health Risks of smog but no one will dare say “actually guys it’s the smog that is giving us all lung cancer not the cigarettes”. The News Readers will go to amazing grammatical lengths to talk about ‘fine dust particulate induced respiratory difficulties’ and a supposed death toll akin to a good productive day in Auschwitz but won’t say the words ‘Lungenkrebs’ (Lung Cancer).


    • What the drones never realise is – air moves around. Outdoors is not like indoors. But then they cannot be allowed to realise this, or they would not see the Mad Hatter reasoning of outdoor smoking bans.

      So they will ignore prevailing winds and carry on inhaling the toxins.

      I see no problem with this.


  5. I’ve mentioned in the past in comments (dunno where) that I live in a place that sees a considerable number of Brit tourists in the summer, from right across the social spectrum, and my anecdotal and totally unscientific observations from when I’m out and about tell me that a lot of them smoke. A good 50%, maybe even more.

    I think perhaps the reason for the larger observable numbers is because here there is no hatefest aimed at smokers. Smokers are universally welcomed as valued customers, and their hosts, who probably smoke themselves, see nothing out of the ordinary about supplying ashtrays to every table.

    So those Brits who when in UK would be skulking in doorways and denying to all and sundry that they are smokers, suddenly find themselves somewhere that does not require denial. So they feel comfortable sitting at a café where they can be seen to be smoking. No hand-waving, no disapproving frowns, no mutterings from the next table about the ‘stink’. Those locals who don’t smoke are completely oblivious to the smokers around them, not having been conditioned by decades of propaganda from state funded hatemongers.

    I can’t think of any other reason for my observations unless this place attracts a disproportionate number of smokers, for some reason. Which, thinking about it, may be true to an extent, but not, I’m sure, to quite such a great extent.


    • “I’ve mentioned in the past in comments (dunno where) that I live in a place that sees a considerable number of Brit tourists in the summer,”

      Yes you have and we all HATE YOU FOR IT YOU LUCKY BASTARD!! *dark green coloured rant* 😛


      • Now, now, BD. You know it’s bad for your blood pressure to do dark green rants! 🙂

        If it’s any consolation, mate, we seem to have gone back to rather cool, wet and wintry weather for Easter. All those poor buggers are going to be out in not very pleasant conditions spit-roasting their traditional Easter lamb. Bloody shame. It’s usually good BBQ weather at this time of year.

        That’s global warming for you.


    • Maybe smokers go there because they are not hated. Which, all other considerations aside, mean that your locality could get 20% of the UK holiday business with one simple slogan. ‘If you smoke, we don’t hate you’.

      That slogan would get any UK political party a starting point of 20% approival before they even mentioned any other policies.


  6. Is there not a further group of smokers? The ones who smoke fags made by themselves and which include cannabis? All those lefty trendies? All those who decry smoking but do it themselves?

    It’ll be for health reasons though I would imagine. They would never smoke for smokings sake. Surely? Smoke, use drugs and sneer at the prols all at the same time. Result!


  7. The Dwarf Hovel is above a chip ship on the main road through the town. I don’t smoke in the flat because The Absolute Bestes Frau In The Whole Wide World And Then Some is a non-smoker…infact when we met back in ’88 she was a Rabid Anti-Smoker, but as they say down Cafe Moustache… Anyways I smoke my 60 a day downstairs outside the front door…I’m known in the town and environs as ‘the shaved headed git what blows smoke into the little faces of all the passing school CHELDREENZ”.

    You would be surprised at how many people, who walk past me, suddenly develop a cough…although I personally blame the double decker busses which squeeze down our narrow medieval street (we can’t have window boxes outside our 1st floor flat)….and I often remark to the Coughing that “bloody ‘Sanders Coaches’ will be the death of us all”.

    You’d also be surprised at how many of those passing remark “OMG that smells good! Your cigarette I mean. I gave up *insert number of decades* ago cos the *insert spouse* hated it but there isn’t a day that I don’t miss it”. I kid you not..and more often than not it is some ‘memsahib’ (ie elderly white Lady former member of the Raj -you know the sort, her husband aka ‘The Major’ drives a Rover in driving gloves and cap)

    Unsurprising is the amount of the “YUfF” what smoke. The chip shop below us is what passes as NIght Life here (this is Norfolk!) as it is open until 22:00 7 days a week. The Youth of the town congeal outside it, dreaming of the day when they are big enough to TWOC their first car and escape to The City to stand outside McDonalds. Some evenings there will be 10 -15 boys and girls out there, all using their iPhones on my WIFI (I don’t password it-it’s a ‘hacker ethic’ thing) and most of them will be smoking. The other evening I noticed that E-Hookahs are beginning to appear here among the kids too.


    • You would be surprised at how many people, who walk past me, suddenly develop a cough

      There was one raddled harridan who passed me at a bus stop while I was rolling up. She developed a mysteriously exaggerated cough. I hadn’t even finished rolling.

      That is how pathetic these people really are.

      I have seen ads for the e-hookahs developing. The antis have picked a fight they thought would only be against a midget, without seeing his giant pal behind.

      Popcorn time…


  8. That so-called study is bollocks.

    “Feng He, like Crichton, plotted the course of several time series, but only over four separate years. The picture above shows some of these series. The data themselves were taken from different sources and measured over different people (and even over slightly different times, but let that pass). The sample sizes of the different data sets were widely different, too.

    Emphasis: salt intake was measured on different people in each of the four time periods.

    Of the most important series, “Stroke and IHD mortality rates were calculated as the number of stroke or IHD deaths divided by the population.” Of course, the population of England changed over this time, mostly due to immigration of people whose eating habits probably weren’t the same as the native residents’ (I’m guessing, but it’s plausible).

    More emphasis: nowhere was salt intake nor heart disease nor stroke occurrence measured on any individual. All we have is four time points for several different disparate heterogeneous series. Nowhere was immigration measured. Obviously, or perhaps not obviously, many other possible causes were not measured.”

    From Matt Briggs, an ace statitistician who’s written a couple of understandable books on the subject which rip the balls off misuse of the discipline.


    • When Matt Briggs gets going, he is too technical for me, but when he speaks English, like John Brignell he is masterful in demolishing nonsense.

      I generally don’t put salt on my food, chips and salads excepted. The reason is that it is best put in the food being cooked, to bring out the flavour. Just enough, and the food tastes good, but you don’t notice the salt. You also get your ration.

      An occasional visitor still thinks that like her, I don’t use salt. Well, she comes out here to Italy in high summer, and remarks that she can stand the heat here better than at home in the south of England. Aye, there is a reason for that…


    • All such studies are bollocks, but when real scientists try to point it out, they are ignored by respectable (disreputable) journals.

      This house of cards is just waiting for that one slammed door…


  9. I am working in France, most young people seem to smoke if the bars I hang around is anything to go by, plus most people eat voraciously, washing it down with a few glasses of wine. no-one seems fat, or looks unhealthy. There are old guys with boozy faces, but they are old guys, smoke and drink and fat and salt have kept them alive to a ripe old age. So now I will glug this very nice Sidi Brahim – a Morrocan red. Mmm.


    • This anecdotal stuff is getting to be a serious accumulation now. If I can find a way to reach neutrals – non-smokers but not lying drone antis – we could collate some useful information here. Not that anyone in government would listen, they are all dimmer than an ecobulb, but we don’t need them any more. Never did, really.

      Won’t be easy. Most neutrals will naturally want to stay out of this fight, well, until it gets to their door.


  10. Gosh, yes. Everyone I know smokes. And all the cool kids. It’s only the stuffy buggers who don’t. Mind you, I am a hermit most of the time, and when I do socialise it’s with reprobates from my own social milieu. So mine may not be a representative sample. There’s definitely a lot of it about though. I haven’t noticed much of a reduction, if any.


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